<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1375</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	11/21/99 8:45:55 PM Pacific Standard Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Sunday, November 21 1999     Volume 1999 : Number 1375<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Vargr<BR>
Re: Traveller Navigation and Gunnery<BR>
Re: Traveller Navigation and Gunnery<BR>
Comedy Quote Chain?<BR>
Re Polities in the Imperium<BR>
Re: Traveller Navigation and Gunnery<BR>
Re: Comedy Quote Chain?<BR>
Re: the drift of humaniti<BR>
Re: Traveller Navigation and Gunnery<BR>
Re: Weapons of mass destruction (Was: Traveller Nav, Gun...)<BR>
Re: Weapons of mass destruction (Was: Traveller Nav, Gun...)<BR>
Re: Invasions (formerly Trav Nav & Gunnery)<BR>
Re: riot control<BR>
Re: Comedy Quote Chain?<BR>
Re: Disabling Weapons<BR>
Re: Weapons of mass destruction [the homemade variety]<BR>
Re: Weapons of mass destruction (Was: Traveller Nav, Gun...)<BR>
Re: Traveller Navigation and Gunnery<BR>
Re: the drift of Vargr<BR>
Re: Traveller Planetary Assaults<BR>
Re: Mass Destruction<BR>
Amazon.com<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 18:37:54 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kyle Schuant <kyle3054@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Vargr<BR>
<BR>
>>Interesting thoughts. I've played them more like a<BR>
wolf pack, with a<BR>
strong leader having to show off his strength to the<BR>
others.>><BR>
<BR>
Like the Klingons, you mean? (I always wondered if MM<BR>
ripped them off ST...)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
KA Schuant<BR>
member: Chef's Guild International, Sporting Shooter's Assoc, Amnesty Int, Carlton Soccer Club<BR>
Melbourne<BR>
Australia<BR>
ph 0411 893 561<BR>
<BR>
"Duct tape is like the Force: it has a light side, a dark side, and it binds the universe together"<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 19:25:08 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller Navigation and Gunnery<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Hee hee hee......<BR>
><BR>
> I just pictured an Impy Marine being launched in full BD at some planet<BR>
> doing roughly 22,000 miles per hour. I know, I know, he would burn up on<BR>
> entry into the atmosphere but the thought was there none the less. Huummmm,<BR>
> if you could cool him down, I wonder just how big a crater he would make?<BR>
<BR>
Well, 22,000 mph is about 6 miles/sec. or about 9.8 km/sec. At *3*<BR>
km/sec the impact energy is equivalent to an equal mass of TNT going<BR>
off. Energy goes up as the square of the velocity. <BR>
<BR>
So my figures say he goes off like 11 times his mass in TNT. Assume 250<BR>
kilos for trooper and suit, and you get the equivalent of an old time<BR>
"block buster" bomb (actually about 2.6 tons of TNT)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 19:20:01 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller Navigation and Gunnery<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>Problem is, the rock will get the course mod *way* outside the range<BR>
>>of an meson site. Say 1 or 2 AU. That's 150 to 300 *million* km. The<BR>
>>imperials can stay out around the 100 diameter limit and pick off<BR>
>>anybody jumping insystem. And they'd be fairly hard to hit (actually,<BR>
>>I'm not sure they *can* be hit at that range from an "average" sized<BR>
>>world). <BR>
><BR>
> No, a meson cannon couldn't stop the rock from being put on an<BR>
> intercept course.  It wouldn't have the range.  I got to thinking,<BR>
> though, about another idea.<BR>
><BR>
> Would it be possible to use the meson cannon to deflect the rock?<BR>
> You aren't going to have many shots because of the closing velocity,<BR>
> but it doesn't have to be moving all that fast to be deadly, so it<BR>
> *might* be possible to hit a rock a few times between the time it<BR>
> comes into range and it hits the world's surface.  <BR>
><BR>
> You don't want to break it up so aiming would be critical.  What you<BR>
> would want to do is decay the mesons just under the surface of the<BR>
> big rock causing an explosion that changes it's vector.  All you<BR>
> have to do is deflect it a little and it hits at an angle and skips<BR>
> off.  I suspect even near misses would be quite unpleasant for a<BR>
> world's ecology, but infinitely better than a direct hit.<BR>
<BR>
Depends on the rock's size, shape, composition and rotation rate. But<BR>
giving enough of a nudge in the last few *minutes* (which is all the<BR>
longer the rock will be in range since it's travelling 30-40 km/sec) is<BR>
going to be really hard. <BR>
<BR>
You do have one advantage. A dinosaur killer *won't* skip off the<BR>
atmosphere. It'll plow right on thru. It's just *too* massive. But a<BR>
city killer is a different story. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 22:50:19 -0500<BR>
From: "Lyle Youngblood" <lyley@gte.net><BR>
Subject: Comedy Quote Chain?<BR>
<BR>
> ? wrote:<BR>
> Huummmm,<BR>
>> > >if you could cool him down, I wonder just how big<BR>
>> a crater he would make?<BR>
<BR>
>"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:<BR>
> "Bigger than one made by any pimply-faced, weak-kneed Army Rapid<BR>
> Intercourser, By God!  An' smile when you call me 'Impy'" <BR>
> - Armsman/1c Gerg Schulters, Lima Co, 1183rd Marine Regiment (Hell on the<BR>
> Half Shell), interviewed while under a table at the 404 Club.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>? wrote:<BR>
>"Only if the Marine landed head-first.  The hollow-point effect, don't<BR>
>you know."<BR>
>- Corporal Shannash Irkirkhaamn-Noland, Alpha Co, 1199th Jump Infantry<BR>
>Regiment ("Aces and Nines"), upon hearing of Armsman/1c Schulters'<BR>
>remarks.<BR>
<BR>
>Kyle Schuant wrote:<BR>
>"Well, it's good to know that the Navy always will<BR>
>land us at the right place."<BR>
>- - Private Naive Bastard, Charlie Company, 5th<BR>
>Battalion , AIF, Gallipoli, April 1915<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
"Right-o, mate.  And they keep us so ruddy well-supplied, too."<BR>
- --Corporal Knows Better, Company A, 2nd Battalion, British<BR>
1st Paras, Arnhem, 21 September 1944<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 19:48:44 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re Polities in the Imperium<BR>
<BR>
>From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
>Subject: Re Polities in the Imperium<BR>
...<BR>
>>Oh, but wait, doesn't the Imperium have laws against multiworld polities?<BR>
><BR>
>Doubtful, since each sector has a government and a fleet (CT: HG), as does<BR>
>almost every subsector (ibid), plus there are imperial worlds that "own"<BR>
>other worlds...<BR>
<BR>
  But aren't the lower level fleets merely portions of the Imperium with<BR>
a divergent organization? They don't actually serve a separate foreign <BR>
policy - although as you indicate a potential difference of opinions on<BR>
internal issue is the big question. <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 19:51:31 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kyle Schuant <kyle3054@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller Navigation and Gunnery<BR>
<BR>
> So my figures say he goes off like 11 times his mass<BR>
> in TNT. Assume 250<BR>
> kilos for trooper and suit, and you get the<BR>
> equivalent of an old time<BR>
> "block buster" bomb (actually about 2.6 tons of TNT)<BR>
<BR>
So drop a whole division and its like a Hiroshima<BR>
bomb?<BR>
<BR>
"Any volunteers for special duty?"<BR>
- - Famous question in the military<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
KA Schuant<BR>
member: Chef's Guild International, Sporting Shooter's Assoc, Amnesty Int, Carlton Soccer Club<BR>
Melbourne<BR>
Australia<BR>
ph 0411 893 561<BR>
<BR>
"Duct tape is like the Force: it has a light side, a dark side, and it binds the universe together"<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 19:54:05 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kyle Schuant <kyle3054@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Comedy Quote Chain?<BR>
<BR>
- --- Lyle Youngblood <lyley@gte.net> wrote:<BR>
> > ? wrote:<BR>
> > Huummmm,<BR>
> >> > >if you could cool him down, I wonder just how<BR>
> big<BR>
> >> a crater he would make?<BR>
> <BR>
> >"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:<BR>
> > "Bigger than one made by any pimply-faced,<BR>
> weak-kneed Army Rapid<BR>
> > Intercourser, By God!  An' smile when you call me<BR>
> 'Impy'" <BR>
> > - Armsman/1c Gerg Schulters, Lima Co, 1183rd<BR>
> Marine Regiment (Hell on the<BR>
> > Half Shell), interviewed while under a table at<BR>
> the 404 Club.<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> >? wrote:<BR>
> >"Only if the Marine landed head-first.  The<BR>
> hollow-point effect, don't<BR>
> >you know."<BR>
> >- Corporal Shannash Irkirkhaamn-Noland, Alpha Co,<BR>
> 1199th Jump Infantry<BR>
> >Regiment ("Aces and Nines"), upon hearing of<BR>
> Armsman/1c Schulters'<BR>
> >remarks.<BR>
> <BR>
> >Kyle Schuant wrote:<BR>
> >"Well, it's good to know that the Navy always will<BR>
> >land us at the right place."<BR>
> >- - Private Naive Bastard, Charlie Company, 5th<BR>
> >Battalion , AIF, Gallipoli, April 1915<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> "Right-o, mate.  And they keep us so ruddy<BR>
> well-supplied, too."<BR>
> --Corporal Knows Better, Company A, 2nd Battalion,<BR>
> British<BR>
> 1st Paras, Arnhem, 21 September 1944<BR>
> <BR>
"Yes, Goering promised he could supply us from a great<BR>
distance, easily."<BR>
- -- Oberst IntheScheiss, 223rd Bavarian Hills Infantry,<BR>
Stalingrad, 1943<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
KA Schuant<BR>
member: Chef's Guild International, Sporting Shooter's Assoc, Amnesty Int, Carlton Soccer Club<BR>
Melbourne<BR>
Australia<BR>
ph 0411 893 561<BR>
<BR>
"Duct tape is like the Force: it has a light side, a dark side, and it binds the universe together"<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 22:58:55 -0500<BR>
From: "Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd@gate.net><BR>
Subject: Re: the drift of humaniti<BR>
<BR>
the questionwas asked:<BR>
<BR>
>> For those of you into genetic drift and the like,<BR>
>> how differentiated do you<BR>
>> think humaniti will have become (Ancient and human<BR>
>> meddling aside)?<BR>
>30,000 years is a long time... who knows?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
One good question deserves another, under the same set of circumstances how<BR>
differentiated do you think Vargr will have become?  My remembrances of<BR>
reading what I presume is the canon Vargr module suggests that there has<BR>
been considerable variance among the Vargr, even assuming that Grandpappy<BR>
started from a single homogenous genetic stock, not a forgone conclusion in<BR>
my opinion.  That module referenced both very large and smaller than average<BR>
Vargr sub-races resultant from his genetic manipulation.    While I am not a<BR>
zoologist it is my understanding that the germplasm of modern canines is<BR>
arguably more plastic that homo sap., as witness the wide variance in modern<BR>
canine breeds.  On the flip side I understand the modern breeds will, within<BR>
a few feral generations of interbreeding revert to an archetypal short<BR>
haired dog about 25 to 35 pounds in weight.   Thus I ask the question, how<BR>
do others play variations in Vargr "genotypes" if at all.   Is there "racial<BR>
prejudice" within the Vargr race based on fur color, length of fur, fur<BR>
texture, body size, body confirmation, jaw configuration or length of fang?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 19:38:32 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller Navigation and Gunnery<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Hiroshima happened because the U.S. was the only country to possess nuclear<BR>
> weapons. There was no chance that Japan could retaliate.  The whole<BR>
> Manhattan project thing, with the USAA bombing water pipelines from Norway<BR>
> to prevent heavy water deliveries to scientists in Germany was based on the<BR>
> fear that Hitler would get the bomb first. Had he done so and dropped it<BR>
> on....I don't know...***London*** for example the European war would have<BR>
> been over. (Especially if it had been delivered by a V-2.)<BR>
<BR>
For that matter, it would have been fairly easy to smuggle a few nukes<BR>
into the US about freighters from "neutral" nations (assuming that they<BR>
decided *not* to risk delivery by submarine). <BR>
<BR>
And this is a lot more likely, since V2s weren't that accurate, and<BR>
they didn't really have the payload (they only carried a ton of<BR>
explosive. Early nukes ere not only heavier than that, they were *way*<BR>
thicker). <BR>
<BR>
I suspect that New York City would be the first target, simply because<BR>
it'd be the easiest to sneak into. Washington is a bit far up the<BR>
Potomac. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 19:47:08 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Weapons of mass destruction (Was: Traveller Nav, Gun...)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>So anybody over TL 5 or 6 (too lazy to check the books :-) can build a<BR>
>>nuke. It's no more "restricted" a technology than gunpowder and other<BR>
>>explosives.<BR>
><BR>
> Give me the materials and I can make you one.  Very simple to build and<BR>
> understand if you can at least think.<BR>
<BR>
"Build Your Own Atomic Bomb and *Really* Wake Up the Neighborhood" (or<BR>
something like that) was the title of an article printed in the 70s in<BR>
Analog. It details how to build a *really* crude nuke. Really dirty<BR>
too. <BR>
<BR>
And yes, they left out details. Ones that might get you killed. But the<BR>
damn thing *would* work.<BR>
<BR>
Basicly, all you need are the fissionables, a 2-story house with<BR>
basement, and some fairly common tools and construction materials. You<BR>
*don't* need any explosives!<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 19:51:39 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Weapons of mass destruction (Was: Traveller Nav, Gun...)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> >So anybody over TL 5 or 6 (too lazy to check the books :-) can build a<BR>
>> >nuke. It's no more "restricted" a technology than gunpowder and other<BR>
>> >explosives.<BR>
>> <BR>
>> Give me the materials and I can make you one.  Very simple to build and<BR>
>> understand if you can at least think.<BR>
><BR>
> You building a 'gun' type, or an implosion trigger type?<BR>
<BR>
A non-portable ""gravity gun" type is the simplest to build.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 19:53:41 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Invasions (formerly Trav Nav & Gunnery)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> I'd go for the armoured cars, myself. Unless unit<BR>
> cohesion ain't important to you, which I suppose it<BR>
> isn't if you have trained beserker fanatics who don't<BR>
> need back-up or organisation.... "I only need to know<BR>
> one thing... where the bugs are... blood blood blood!"<BR>
<BR>
Niven style "stasis fields" would be *great* for drops. Form up a<BR>
company (or whatever) in BD, slap a stasis fiels around them, and throw<BR>
them at the target, with the field set to drop just after impact. The<BR>
field drops and they bounce out of the still glowing crater....<BR>
<BR>
Oddly, they aren't all that great for defensive use. You can't *do*<BR>
anything while inside them, since a second inside is a few million<BR>
years outside. And you can't shoot out of them either. Nor do they<BR>
"hide" that well. <BR>
<BR>
Turn one on as a "last resort" and when it goes down, you'll either be<BR>
surrounded by enemy weapons, ready to be set off, or if you *really*<BR>
pissed them off, the weapons *will* go off as soon as the field goes.<BR>
Ouch. <BR>
<BR>
But for a combat drop, they'd be great. Worst that can happen is that<BR>
they throw something big at you and your "group" winds up in a<BR>
different spot. But even that would be hard to pull off.<BR>
<BR>
Maybe it's just as well Traveller doesn't have them...<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 20:01:25 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: riot control<BR>
<BR>
In mail, traveller@lists.imagiconline.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
> IMHO, the best riot control weapon is something with no medical side<BR>
> effects, able to be targeted effectively, and has minimal secondary<BR>
> effects.  Watar canons seem to fit the bill. Water casues no alergic<BR>
> reactions, the delivery will at most cause abrasions and blunt trauma<BR>
> (on hitting the ground  or obsticals) and can be aimed to avoid<BR>
> children and elderly (who have a higher chance of sustainig more<BR>
> serious injury with the secondary effects.<BR>
<BR>
You've never seen what a regular fire hose can do, have you? And you've<BR>
*definitely* never seen what a water cannon can.<BR>
<BR>
At the speeds and pressures involved, the *water* can break bones. You<BR>
don't have to be thrown against anything. <BR>
<BR>
There are pictures available of the time the authorities used "mere"<BR>
firehoses on civil rights demonstrators in the South. And you can see<BR>
the water stream "pick up" and "throw" people 10 and 20 feet. Anything<BR>
pushing hard enough to do *that* and less than a foot across can and<BR>
will produce blunt trauma all by itself.<BR>
<BR>
As for water cannon, there are cases on record (from repressive<BR>
regimes) where they were used and *cut people in half*. Those things<BR>
can punch holes in concrete blocks or some frame buildings. Using them<BR>
on people is *not* remotely "without medical side effects".<BR>
 <BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 22:16:10 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Comedy Quote Chain?<BR>
<BR>
Kyle Schuant wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> --- Lyle Youngblood <lyley@gte.net> wrote:<BR>
> > > ? wrote:<BR>
> > > Huummmm,<BR>
> > >> > >if you could cool him down, I wonder just how<BR>
> > big<BR>
> > >> a crater he would make?<BR>
> ><BR>
> > >"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:<BR>
> > > "Bigger than one made by any pimply-faced,<BR>
> > weak-kneed Army Rapid<BR>
> > > Intercourser, By God!  An' smile when you call me<BR>
> > 'Impy'"<BR>
> > > - Armsman/1c Gerg Schulters, Lima Co, 1183rd<BR>
> > Marine Regiment (Hell on the<BR>
> > > Half Shell), interviewed while under a table at<BR>
> > the 404 Club.<BR>
> ><BR>
> ><BR>
> > >? wrote:<BR>
> > >"Only if the Marine landed head-first.  The<BR>
> > hollow-point effect, don't<BR>
> > >you know."<BR>
> > >- Corporal Shannash Irkirkhaamn-Noland, Alpha Co,<BR>
> > 1199th Jump Infantry<BR>
> > >Regiment ("Aces and Nines"), upon hearing of<BR>
> > Armsman/1c Schulters'<BR>
> > >remarks.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > >Kyle Schuant wrote:<BR>
> > >"Well, it's good to know that the Navy always will<BR>
> > >land us at the right place."<BR>
> > >- - Private Naive Bastard, Charlie Company, 5th<BR>
> > >Battalion , AIF, Gallipoli, April 1915<BR>
> ><BR>
> ><BR>
> > "Right-o, mate.  And they keep us so ruddy<BR>
> > well-supplied, too."<BR>
> > --Corporal Knows Better, Company A, 2nd Battalion,<BR>
> > British<BR>
> > 1st Paras, Arnhem, 21 September 1944<BR>
> ><BR>
> "Yes, Goering promised he could supply us from a great<BR>
> distance, easily."<BR>
> -- Oberst IntheScheiss, 223rd Bavarian Hills Infantry,<BR>
> Stalingrad, 1943<BR>
<BR>
"We'll be home by Christmas."<BR>
<BR>
- - Uncounted multitudes of soldiers, marines, sailors, and airmen, of<BR>
many nations, and too many wars.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 20:11:26 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Disabling Weapons<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> From: "Alan Bradley" <BR>
>> 3.  Gimmick devices like the anti-electronics one that I seem to have<BR>
> lost<BR>
>> the reference to above only work when they are a suprise.  A bit of thin<BR>
>> plastic and some masking tape would adequately seal most electronic<BR>
>> equipment.<BR>
><BR>
> Ah.  What I lost was that the anti-electronics device was an EMP grenade. <BR>
> I was thinking it was something like the gadget that was used against<BR>
> Yugoslavia, where a seal, like above, would be sufficient to protect your<BR>
> gear.<BR>
><BR>
> Primitive EMP hardening might be possible, if awkward.  It would probably<BR>
> be sufficient to reduce the effect of an EMP grenade, which could, after<BR>
> all, not have too extreme an area of effect if it was to be used in a city.<BR>
>  So, something more than a few meters away from such a grenade could be<BR>
> safe, with fairly simple shielding.  Would the demonstrators have the<BR>
> technicians capable of creating such shielding?  Obviously it depends, but<BR>
> it's very likely.  They probably couldn't do it on the spot, but if this<BR>
> device is do be used more than once, countermeasures are possible and<BR>
> likely.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, it's *quite* simple. Use an old *tube* based portable PA<BR>
system. ICs fry easily from induced high voltages. Tube gear *expects*<BR>
high voltages. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 22:24:01 -0600<BR>
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Weapons of mass destruction [the homemade variety]<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
> <BR>
> >>So anybody over TL 5 or 6 (too lazy to check the books :-) can build a<BR>
> >>nuke. It's no more "restricted" a technology than gunpowder and other<BR>
> >>explosives.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Give me the materials and I can make you one.  Very simple to build and<BR>
> > understand if you can at least think.<BR>
> <BR>
> "Build Your Own Atomic Bomb and *Really* Wake Up the Neighborhood" (or<BR>
> something like that) was the title of an article printed in the 70s in<BR>
> Analog. It details how to build a *really* crude nuke. Really dirty<BR>
> too.<BR>
> <BR>
> And yes, they left out details. Ones that might get you killed. But the<BR>
> damn thing *would* work.<BR>
> <BR>
> Basicly, all you need are the fissionables, a 2-story house with<BR>
> basement, and some fairly common tools and construction materials. You<BR>
> *don't* need any explosives!<BR>
<BR>
I remember reading that article in my school library.  My favorite part<BR>
was the safety caution not to get your sub-critical masses too close to<BR>
each other prior to the planned event, as a "squib" explosion could<BR>
occur.  The author used words to the effect that such a squib explosion<BR>
would barely manage to blow up the building, and "terrorists who only<BR>
succeed in blowing themselves up are not terrifying at all, but merely<BR>
amusing."<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 23:23:15 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Weapons of mass destruction (Was: Traveller Nav, Gun...)<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 11/21/99 12:35:08 PM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>
dom@cybergoths.u-net.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< Another reason for the bombing of Dresden was retaliation for the <BR>
 destruction of the heart of Coventry in the UK. >><BR>
<BR>
Probably explains why the krauts went ga-ga over the "bomber" Harris <BR>
statue...Of course I could care less about the feelings of Germans who were <BR>
adults in 1939.....The current occupants are cool though...:-)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 23:28:28 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller Navigation and Gunnery<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 11/21/99 2:12:33 PM Pacific Standard Time, j-man@iname.com <BR>
writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< Which brings up a question for me; assuming the forces have control of the<BR>
 'high ground', whats the best way of dropping your troops in oder to capture<BR>
 the planet?  Together in armored shuttles (I think this is a bad idea<BR>
 myself) or like in Starship Troopers, where they drop individually<BR>
 'halo-style'? >><BR>
<BR>
I like the FASA Renegade Legion method of dropping grav vehicles from <BR>
orbit....<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 20:40:39 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kyle Schuant <kyle3054@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: the drift of Vargr<BR>
<BR>
> One good question deserves another, under the same<BR>
> set of circumstances how<BR>
> differentiated do you think Vargr will have become? <BR>
>witness the<BR>
> wide variance in modern<BR>
> canine breeds.  <BR>
<BR>
In modern canine breeds, there are families rather<BR>
than species. Eg the modern "sausage dog" came from<BR>
16th centruy England, when a breeder dred a<BR>
long-bodied dog with another, got their children to<BR>
mate with each-other, selected the longest-bodied of<BR>
_their_ children, and so on. Essentially it's a case<BR>
of breeding _in_ the recessive genes. You could do<BR>
exactly the same with humans if you wanted to, and<BR>
were patient. For example, you could create a race of<BR>
"hobbits" by breeding one midget with another, and<BR>
making their children mate with each-other, and so on.<BR>
Canine "breeds" are very simply inbred families.<BR>
(anybody seen the X-Files episode, "home"? icky!) If<BR>
you could make Michael Jordan mate with the head of<BR>
the Russian women's basketball team, you could make a<BR>
race of "giants", and so on.<BR>
<BR>
So I'd say the Vargr would probably just be mongrels,<BR>
really. I'm sure that with language and higher<BR>
intelligence they would have developed the same incest taboo.<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
KA Schuant<BR>
member: Chef's Guild International, Sporting Shooter's Assoc, Amnesty Int, Carlton Soccer Club<BR>
Melbourne<BR>
Australia<BR>
<BR>
"Duct tape is like the Force: it has a light side, a dark side, and it binds the universe together"<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 22:28:25 -0600<BR>
From: Richard Wilson <rtwilson@rollanet.org><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller Planetary Assaults<BR>
<BR>
At 09:13 PM 11/21/99 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>    If you're dropping troops to the surface to grab what is, in all<BR>
>likelihood,<BR>
>an already well-defended target, such as a starport or other "high value<BR>
>target", why wouldn't you make that, or one of those, your main beachhead?<BR>
>If you're talking "hit and get" raids, yeah, but I got the impression that<BR>
>you<BR>
>were talking seize and _hold_ the starport.  <BR>
<BR>
Way bother grabbing the starport at all? If commercial starships can land<BR>
at a type X starport (AKA a big empty field) than a combat lander should be<BR>
able to. <BR>
<BR>
So, for a planetary assault you could drop a brigade or two in a deserted<BR>
spot. They grab a large enough area for your combat engineers or seabees to<BR>
build a new starport. The new starport lets you land troops in a secure<BR>
area while the people on the planet are busy re-routing their troops to an<BR>
area they were not prepared to defend. If you are not willing to bombard<BR>
high value targets, well, the local troops will be coming to you so you can<BR>
hit them in a low value area.<BR>
<BR>
And if the locals don't come out to play? Grap the rest of the planet and<BR>
starve them out. (What tech level does weather control become practical?)<BR>
<BR>
Granted, this won't work with a world with a high enough pop. A world with<BR>
a population greater than maybe 7 or so, you will probably end up having to<BR>
hit at least  some of the population centers hard. This might start out<BR>
with EMP bursts and escalate (clean airbursts to burn soft targets) if the<BR>
locals didn't surrender.<BR>
<BR>
And a final thought. The Imperium is made up of 11,000 worlds. Burning one<BR>
world every few decades might be a cost effective measure if it makes other<BR>
worlds think twice about leaving.<BR>
<BR>
Richard Wilson<BR>
     <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 1999 23:43:26 EST<BR>
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Mass Destruction<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 11/21/99 6:26:08 PM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>
kyle3054@yahoo.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< What are the possibilities for a Death Star type<BR>
 weapon in Traveller? Maybe a humungous Meson Gun?<BR>
  >><BR>
<BR>
It's called a Batron of Tigress'...:-)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 1999 14:58:54 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Amazon.com<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Jory Earl <j-man@iname.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Saturday, November 20, 1999 1:10 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: Totally OT but ...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> That was pretty interesting there, I would never have caught that.<BR>
><BR>
> On another note, I would like to ask the gang here what their experiences<BR>
> have been buying from Amazon.com?  I purchased "Age of Empires 2" at their<BR>
> site almost a month ago and they agreed to ship it within 3-7 days.  As<BR>
you<BR>
> can probably tell, the wait time has far exceeded that.<BR>
><BR>
> I have emailed them several times inquiring as to where my purchased<BR>
> software is and they have chosen to ignore me.  By looking at my credit<BR>
card<BR>
> statement, I find a clear record of the completed transaction.<BR>
><BR>
> Which leads me to my second question :  What are my rights in this case?<BR>
Is<BR>
> there anyway I can make then uphold their end of the bargain or am I just<BR>
> SOL?<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Sorry J, but I can only offer success stories about Amazon.com.  I have a<BR>
friend that buys regularly, every couple of months from Amazon.com, never<BR>
less than $500 (AUST) each order and is stuff arrives within a couple of<BR>
weeks from the U.S.  He gets books, CD's, CD-ROM's, and DVD's without a<BR>
hitch.<BR>
<BR>
A Aussie computer magazine (APC) also ran an article on on-line buying<BR>
(something pretty slow to take off in Australia - Aussies disliking giving<BR>
their credit card details over the net), how it is slow but improving.<BR>
Aussies were advised mainly to avoid Aussie on-line stores as the prices<BR>
were not comparable to U.S. on-line stores, even considering shipping<BR>
costs!!!!!  Anyway, to get back to the thread, the writer compared several<BR>
local and overseas stores buy anonymous personal buying (something he did,<BR>
which gave him an inside on the article) and found that Amazon.com was the<BR>
fasted to deliver his goods (even with shipping to Australia), and when he<BR>
ordered book "X" and they actually sent book "Z" instead, upon e-mailing<BR>
them, he not only got the original book within days by an overseas express<BR>
delivery service, he was told to keep the other product as compensation for<BR>
the delay.  All this without them knowing he was a computer journo or that<BR>
he would write about it in an article some months later!<BR>
<BR>
I can't offer you any help, I'm sorry, but if I can find the article, it<BR>
does give legal (although Aussie - but it may be a start) points on what to<BR>
do.<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Roc<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1375<BR>
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